"People will talk about the internet being undefeated. It's not true. Mother Nature is undefeated."

Metal Covenant got some time to sit down and talk with Shinedown vocalist Brent Smith about the band's upcoming record, Planet Zero. [Out July 1st.]

Band lineup:
Brent Smith, vocals
Eric Bass, bass
Zach Myers, guitars
Barry Kerch, drums

Tobbe: Last time you and I talked, in 2018, before the Attention Attention record, I started our conversation by asking you if that record was Shinedown completed. You answered that it wasn't, and that there are always new things to learn. So, my question now would be, have you gotten nearer a record that you can call completed?

Brent: I don't necessarily look at it like it's completed. We still are very connected to the album and the process of making a record. Like, we've never ever looked at an album and said, "OK, here are the three singles and the rest of the album is just filler. Whatever we had lying around.". Like, that's not the way that we work.

So for us, if it's on the album we wanted the world to hear it. I think what we have done is through experience and understanding that we know exactly who we are. But we also have a fanbase that allows us to be ourselves, like I've often said that we only have one boss in Shinedown; it just happens to be everybody in the audience.

And we listen to them, and they talk to us, like literally and figuratively, and so they help guide us to what each album is going to be, and what we've done previously, and what we either need to harken back to, or what we need to update, or maybe where we are at that point in time. A lot of the ways that I look at it in regards to making a record is that's a snapshot of the artist at that point in time in their life. What made this record so different was that this was the first record that we wrote in real time about everything that was going on in human existence, because we were all going through it together, like the last three years has been eye-opening and it has been interesting to see the human spirit at work on all sides.

So is it Shinedown complete? I think more than everything this is a very focused record. There's a tremendous amount of emotion on this record, 'cause, once again, the subject matter was happening before our eyes as we were writing it. And I think another element to this record was: We're known as a band that can make these very epic style songs and these kind of cinematic records.

This record is a lot more focused, like the vocals for example: They're dry. There is not a lot of effects on the vocals. The vocals are present in this mix. The guitars: It wasn't about stacking and layering certain things. It was about finding an attitude between a certain guitar and a certain amp. Turning them wide open and finding out what is original about that tone.

You know, obviously we worked with synth and different kinds of sound effects and things of that nature. Just having Eric Bass. You know, not everybody has an Eric Bass. We're very, very fortunate in that regard, because he's the engineer, the producer and the mixer of the last album Attention Attention and he's the producer, the main engineer and the mixer of Planet Zero.

So I'm giving you a very, very long answer to not answer your question. [Laughs] An answer to your question: I don't think the band will ever feel like that we've written a record that is completed. I think there is always somewhere else to go.

Tobbe: We will elaborate further on what you've just said later in this interview. But, aren't you afraid of being just one band out of many who sings about, like, pandemic related stuff and what has happened to the world in the last couple of years?

Brent: You know, listen! So this was the way that it was built out, at least from my perspective of the last three years. So, me and Zach at the beginning of 2020, in January, were working on a side project, the Smith & Myers project, with the double album. Then the pandemic hit. Well, one thing that me and Zach did during 2020 was that we played 20 drive-in shows. We were a very, very small group of people that were actually doing live shows. At the beginning of the pandemic also the band unearthed this song, Atlas Falls.

We raised $500.000 with Direct Relief in regards to Covid-19 response early on. Then I arrived in Charleston, with Eric, as we began the journey of kind of figuring out exactly what we were gonna start writing about. And then as we were writing into that year, me and Zach went on tour and did 10 shows in a bus.

And then at the beginning of 2021 we did another 30 shows and we were continuing to write for what became Planet Zero. Then Shinedown last year went out. We did eight shows and then had a two week break and then did five weeks. All 10.000+ shows each one. And from that element me and Zach finished up the cycle of the Smith & Myers run in December of last year.

At the beginning of this year already, obviously, announcing the album, and then announcing and putting out the first single Planet Zero. And on top of that also, we did three weeks in the West Coast as Shinedown playing Planet Zero, the song, live on top of all these other things. But the reason I'm giving you all that context is because: While we were going through all of this, we were watching what was happening with the world, because we were all in it together.

So whether it was a social commentary, whether it was understanding that… Listen, it's more than just a pandemic. It just happens to be that every 100 years something of this nature occurs between Mother Nature and human beings. People will talk about the internet being undefeated. It's not true. Mother Nature is undefeated. I think she has proven that time and time again. This is just the first time in human history that there is an internet.

And so, if you look at that, the other dynamic of this album is also making people understand that: "You're in control of that device. You're in control of your smartphone.". I think people have forgotten that also. And with the powers that be, from a political side, from a media standpoint, in the way we were seeing things… It's interesting, Ted Jensen mastered the album. He has mastered every Shinedown record except for the debut. I remember Ted turning around and looking at me and Eric, during the mastering session, when we were putting the album together. He said "You may have possibly written something historical. Almost as if it is a historical document, because you're talking in real time about everything that has transpired.".

But the reality of the record is I still believe in human beings, I still believe that people are inherently good. When you walk outside of what's going on on that screen and you go out into the real world… Because that's what we were doing. We didn't stay inside, you know. We did what we needed to do in the beginning for public health, but we were educating ourselves and we were learning what was going on. I was hanging out watching Netflix. I was like "What's going on?". You know, I didn't know what a Corona virus was, I didn't know what Covid-19 was, I didn't know what a pandemic was, and I also had never heard the term social distancing. So all these things were brand new.

And another dynamic, I remember the day I found out that the common cold is a Corona virus, and I'm, like, "You never get rid of this.", you know what I mean? Vaccine, herd immunity, no matter what you do, it's not going anywhere. And also, this morning, just finding out that they have blood bank files from September of 2019, and they had Corona virus. They had Covid-19 all the way back in September and that just was found out today. The album is also about: Tell the truth, 'cause you can't outrun karma.".

Tobbe: You mentioned a little bit about the sound and the vocals in the answer to my first question. Would you personally say that this album is kind of more direct and maybe a little bit more downscaled?

Brent: It's not that it's downscaled and it's not stripped down. It's stereo, but we use the term big mono also. With big mono it's like you put the vocal straight down the middle. You know, Eric, like vocally, he wanted to make most of the vocals dry. He wanted me to sound to the listener like I was right in front of them. He wanted the guitars, he wanted the drums, he wanted everything to be not as effective. He wanted everything to be put to the front.

Now there's some sophisticated things on the record and how we're doing certain things here and there, but a lot of the record is very drums, bass, guitar, vocals, "Bang!". It's the message in the delivery also, like, "How are you delivering the song? How are you focusing all the energy? Are you utilizing techniques from previous records, with studio tricks, kind of producer elements that we'll use on certain things?" and the answer to that is: We wanted it to be more of a human record.

The other thing too that Eric did that was different on this album was that everything had to be played through, even a majority of the vocals. Sometimes you'll focus on one section and maybe if you're having a hard time kind of wrapping your head around a part, or something like that, you'll play that part over and over and over again, and lock it in. Then it's fixed, you make sure everything is good, you'll fly it over. He didn't do that. Like, you had to play it through. If you messed up in the middle you had to start over. And Eric doesn't come in like a drill sergeant and he doesn't punch down on anyone in the studio. He walks in always very positive, very charismatic, and puts a lot of encouragement out there, and really wants there to be a fun environment going on.

But, you know, there was a lot of heavy material on this record. Subject matter-wise and just the way we were playing on this album too. It focused us in to see if we could make a record like this. Luckily we were able to pull it off. 'Cause, believe me, it was all four of us in there, like, really hashing it out.

Tobbe: Eric is doing most of the studio work and you personally are writing most of the songs, even though you co-write with him, so when do Zach and Barry really get the chance to throw something in the pot?

Brent: On this album they were there pretty quickly. I've always been the main lyricist in the band, but from the last album to this one I was a lot more vocal with the guys, like, "Listen! If you have an idea for something, or even a phrase, or a word, or when you hear something; don't be quiet, tell me what it is. Let's hash it out. Let's look into it. Let's dig a little deeper.".

That was extended even more so on this record. I mean, one song that's on the album, which is a song called Dead Don't Die, Zach brought that entire song to us, like that whole song lyrically and musically. He kind of developed that with a friend of his, but he wrote it with us in mind and he brought it to us. He actually kind of had it in his back pocket and didn't really tell anybody about it. And he was like "Brent, can I play you something?" and I'm like "Yeah, man.".

And so he plays me this demo that he did, and I was like "You had this the whole time and you're just now showing it to me?" and he's like "Well, I didn't know if there was gonna be something that, like, was kind of like it.". I just wanted it to see where this was gonna go, 'cause we also work with a gentleman in the studio.

The fifth member of the band is a gentleman by the name of Dave Bassett. He has been with us since Sound Of Madness on. So we went out to California with him for about three and a half weeks. Me and Zach and Eric and Dave all worked together. Barry will a lot of times come in towards the middle of everything and kind of look and see what's actually transpiring.

But this particular time, when Eric was kind of balancing out drum parts and what have you, he was sending them way earlier to Barry, and Barry was studying the songs before he arrived. There's not, like, a set way that we do things necessarily; you just kind of have to go and keep up.

Tobbe: Most musicians would never admit that they tweak and twist a little bit to suit their fans, but in the answer to my first question you did that. Every musician usually says that they just do it for themselves and what they think is good and really don't care about what the fans say. But that's obviously not true.

Brent: That's not true. Not with us. Here's the thing: Whether they've been there from the beginning, or they're just finding out who we are, they're the reason that we have a platform to be ourselves. And at the end of the day it's still coming from us, but the influence of the audience, especially our fanbase, means everything to us.

I'll give you an example: Like, the first single, Planet Zero. They told us, they were like, "No matter what you do, we're gonna support you.". They've always allowed us to not be put in a box. 'Cause Shinedown is not like everybody else. You know, there was an element a long time ago where there were people, that had worked with us for a long time, that would ask, "What are they? Are they a rock band? Or are they a pop band? Are they a metal band? Or an alternative band? Are they grunge? Pseudo modern band? What are they?". And those individuals would say "They're Shinedown. They're not gonna let you put 'em in a box. That's just not the way they work.".

We're influenced by so many styles, and we're just lovers of songs, more than anything. In the message, in the dynamic, in what makes the hair on the back of your neck stand up. So, like, with the first single they told us, they were like, "No matter what… Obviously we love you. We're gonna be excited.". But they said, point blank, like, "Light us up! We want you to give us something that is raw power. Don't mess around with us!".

And so we took that very, very seriously, so one of the very first things: Why is the first single Planet Zero? - Listen to it! [Laughs] At the end of the day, let the song speak for itself. But, in order to do that we're listening to our audience.

Tobbe: There are a lot of songs on the album. Although not all of them are actual songs, you know.

Brent: Yeah, it's a rollercoaster ride. Well, there's 13 technical songs. And we make people wait a long time for records. Like, we don't put an album out, like, every year. So, you got to think, like, "May 4th 2018, '19, '20, '21, '22.". It's four years, you know. And I wanna answer your first question, and the answer to that is, like: No, I don't think that we've gotten to anywhere near complete Shinedown. We're still writing the story.

Like, this record, we didn't set out to make a conceptual record. That wasn't the plan in the beginning. The A.I. that's in the record, the artificial intelligence named Cyren… Eric was so fixated on the mixing of the record and I remember I called Ted Jensen on a Thursday, and I said, "Hey! What does your Monday look like?" and he said, "What do you need it to look like?", and I said, "We'll be there on Monday.".

I walked back into the studio and said, "Hey! I just talked to Ted. He's ready for us on Monday. We're gonna master it on Monday." and Eric's like, "I'm not done, Brent." and I'm like, "Yes, you are. We've got to go, man. It's ready. Let's master it." and he's like, "I have this thing that I wanna do, that's gonna put it all together, and I have to be able to do this.". 'Cause we talked about it, like, the only way it would become a conceptual piece is if he was able to follow through with this idea of what became Cyren. But he didn't have it ready, and he had been focusing on the mixing, so, bottom line, I said, "I called Ted. You got 72 hours. You got three days.". And he created Cyren in three days, from nothing.

And so, all those elements that you hear, and all of that segue, and how that has interspersed; he did all of that in three days. It's pretty astonishing. It's another reason why he is such a savant. But that, in and of itself, also too, you never know where it's gonna take you. That's kind of the journey of making an album. So why all that material, or why those songs? That's just where it let us.

Tobbe: And will you always be an album band?

Brent: I don't see how we couldn't be. I mean, would we, like, put songs out just to put songs out? It just depends, you know. And now there's a resurgence with, like, vinyl even more, and now there's a world of cassettes coming back.

Like, the younger generation, from, like, five years ago, they're now, like, 15, and there's something interesting that happens when people, male and female, hear a guitar, and when it goes back to drums, bass, guitar and vocals. You know what I mean? There's something that happens. There's, like, human connection that occurs with that.

And then all of a sudden you go and you listen to all of these records from a younger generation, where those artists came from an album standpoint, and then you find the new school, the new world of musicians, and people that are inspired by the fact that an album is a journey and a moment in time. You think about all of those records that have, like, all of those great songs on them. You know, it's just really important. So, yeah, I don't see any reason why we wouldn't be an album band. It just makes sense for us.

Tobbe: Is it hard when you write new songs today to not look back too much at the early days and try to imitate it too much?

Brent: I actually listen back to it to make sure I'm not imitating it. You know, I've said it before, man. I'm like, "I'm not gonna be mad if I'm copying myself.". [Laughs] If it came from me in the first place, you know. Because it probably didn't all come from me. Like, everybody is inspired by something else, you know.

The other day somebody asked me, like, "What do you consider to be the definition… If you only had one song, what would be…". If extra terrestrials actually came down and were, like, "Play us the one song that represents rock 'n' roll and heavy metal?" and I didn't even have to think about it. I was like, "Stairway To Heaven. There you go.". Like if you got to go to one, you know what I mean? And so, the dynamic of that, and why I bring that up, is, like, you will hit on different things that you did and different sounds that you heard over the years.

But I can tell you right now: Jimmy Page, and even The Rolling Stones… Jimmy Page goes back to, and he talks about it, that when he heard lightning in a bottle for, like, the first time, was when he heard Johnny B. Goode by Chuck Berry. 'Cause technically, if you wanna go all the way back to the beginning, like, [Hums the main riff of that song.]. The speed of those notes, together, for the very first time, in the way that it was played, in the rhythm that it was played… When that came out, everyone was like, "What is that? That is unlike anything I have ever heard. And what is happening to my body right now?". That's why it's magic.

So you're looking for those moments, but, like, when you least expect it those moments happen, you know. So it's a lot of experience, man. You know, I don't consciously sit down and think to myself, "I better not use this line, because it reminds me of this song, or this and that and the other.". You know, that's not plagiarizing because it reminds you of something.

But if you know instinctually that, like, you're on something but you know this because you heard it somewhere else… What I'll do is that I will file through… You see, I use the internet for a good thing… I will file through until I find what that is, and if I can find it and I know, like, "Oh, shoot. I was thinking of this with that melody. I better not use that.". Because that would be copying somebody's stuff. I'd never do that. So, you know, I'm always consciously trying to hit on something that is fresh for me.

Related links:

www.shinedown.com
www.facebook.com/shinedown
www.instagram.com/shinedown
www.twitter.com/shinedown