September 2024
Metal Covenant spent a little time with George Harris before the show when The Raven Age recently played at Kägelbanan in Stockholm as support to Apocalyptica.
Last autumn you guys were out on a headlining tour for the Blood Omen album, but now you’re back as supporting act to Apocalyptica, one year later. Wasn’t there enough room to do another headlining tour?
If this opportunity didn’t come up, then we probably would have done that thing. But when this opportunity of supporting Apocalyptica presented itself, we were like, “It’s a no-brainer.”. I mean, they’re a great band, and it’s a different audience for us to try and get hold of, try and capture, try and show ourselves off to. And on top of that, they’re also doing really cool venues. Like this, it’s a nice one. Our hometown show in London is Royal Albert Hall, which is, like, a real bucket list tick. Doing the Albert Hall in Manchester. Yeah, it just seemed like a really cool tour. Yeah, we don’t wanna pass up this opportunity, so essentially we’ve kind of pushed back our headline tour, and we’re hoping to get that in the first quarter of next year.
On a tour like this, your set must feel quite different as opposed to a headlining tour, because you will probably only be allowed to play half your set on these shows. I don’t know how long you’re playing, but, like, 40 minutes in comparison to 90.
Yeah, we’ve got 45 minutes, and we usually play, like, an hour and a half, or an hour and 25, so easily it’ll be half. It’s strange going from a headline tour to support tours straight away. You get so used to a setlist. You don’t need to read the setlist anymore. You know what’s coming next, and you get used to it, and the set is kind of up and down, and the fans respond in certain ways, and you just flow with it. But yeah, 45 minutes is a decent amount for a support band I think to showcase yourself. And we’ve changed the set up a little bit, just for ourselves to enjoy it as well. And we’ll see how it goes. We haven’t even played the first show yet, so.
Even on headlining shows, you don’t play so many songs from your first album anymore. Is that just because MJ doesn’t sing on those songs?
Well, it’s not necessarily just because of that. You know, it’s not like he’s coming, “Oh, I’m not singing those songs.”. It’s not really how it’s going. I think it’s just that you kind of evolve as a band, and you kind of grow up a little bit maybe, in terms of your maturity and what your taste is. And there’s a few songs that stood out for our fans in that album, which we kind of pretty much kept in the set in general. Yeah, no real reason. When I listen back to that album now, I go, “Ah, I probably would have done this, I probably would have done that.”. You know, the writing style has developed a little bit over the years, and I think it has probably more to do with that.
You were just confirmed for another five dates with Maiden, in June, and it’s definitely not the first time you’re out with those guys. How many times can you support that band actually?
Well, people have asked me, and I’ve said, “No, we’re not doing it again. We had our time.”. I think this time, the only reason we’ve managed to sort of get on those dates is because we’ve not done the UK with them before, apart from we did one show in London, as a one-off. But we’ve not done a UK run with Maiden, so that was why I guess we were sort of accepted onto that tour. So, you know, that will be it, I think. (Laughs)
Let’s talk a little bit about Blood Omen. Now, when you have gotten some perspective to it, what do you see when you listen to it?
I don’t ever listen to it anymore. (Laughs) No, actually we’re still very proud of the record. You know, it’s quite nice to take some time away from listening to it all the time, because, especially when the campaign is going, I’ve probably just been listening to the mixes and the masters over and over and over again, almost to the point where you get sick of the songs. And then the videos will come out, and then you’re on tour, and it’s all about that album, so it’s nice to have that bit of a break from it. Yeah, I think, you know, we’ve managed to put together a pretty cool album, and we’re very happy with it. Like I said, when I look back at Darkness Will Rise now, I think, “Oh, I’d change this, I’d change that.”. I don’t really have that feeling with Blood Omen. Maybe I will in a couple of years. But yeah, I think it’s a good album.
Do you play the songs in the exact same way you did last June, or have you changed them a little bit live on stage?
There’s little bits and bobs. It’s pretty much the same, but I’m not sure that most people will notice. Just maybe musicians might notice little things. Especially the drummer, Jai, he never plays the same thing twice, which me and Matty always pull him up about. (Laughs) Yeah, little things. You kind of get used to playing things in certain ways. It’s funny, ‘cause you have, like, your live version of the song, and then forget that’s not how it goes. (Laughs) Yeah, and MJ’s the same. He always finds little flicks and tails of the way he sings things.
At what stage are you now in terms of another record from The Raven Age?
We’ve got quite a few songs together, like some demos and stuff, from a while back, and some more recently. But we’re not like, “Oh, we’re ready to go.”. We kind of wanna get back together after this tour actually. We’ve got, like, you know, November and December, before we go out in, you know, maybe February. Five months to get together and just jam the stuff out, and see what’s working and what isn’t, and if anything else comes in. We’re not kind of limiting ourselves to the stuff we’ve already got just because we’ve done it, you know. Yeah, it’s gonna be a little bit a case to just get in the studio and seeing what we’re feeling.
Is it even possible to predict now what you will come out with when you’re done?
No. Absolutely nothing. It’s just like sticking your finger in the wind and guessing. We don’t tend to sort of have a preconception about what we’re gonna do too much. Like, sometimes you’ll see things in a certain way, but in general, as a band, we don’t really think, “Oh, we need to write something more like this to fit in a certain hole.”. We just kind of write. Whatever we get excited about is what ends up going on the record. So, hopefully what we get excited about, everyone else gets excited about. (Laughs)
Do you think that journalists are trying to find meanings and reasons that maybe don’t even exist?
Yeah, absolutely. Sometimes you do feel pressure, like, to come up with some amazing story behind everything. Sometimes you just get together and you vibe. Sometimes, certain songs, lyrically, can be completely conceptual, and I actually find it easier writing like that, because there’s lots of information about something, and you can kind of put yourself in someone else’s shoes if you kind of write lyrics more towards your own feelings or yourself. I find it a little bit more difficult when it’s also harder to explain to people. You have to come up with, like, some bullshit story. (Laughs)
Will we ever see, like, a 90-minute live video from The Raven Age? Or is that something that belongs to the past nowadays?
Well, I like the idea of doing it. Definitely. I mean, me, as a fan, I would like to watch other bands do that. And everything’s like short-form, and everyone’s got attention spans of a goldfish these days, you know. I still think it’s a market for it out there. I mean, we spoke about doing that a few times. For one particular show, for a one-off show, in 2019, we did that and filmed the whole thing, but we never did anything. I mean, why didn’t we put it out? I don’t really know why. But yeah, I’m sure we’ll still do that. Maybe on the next headline tour. We’ll see.
And back to the beginning a little bit. Where does the name The Raven Age originate from?
Just Google it. bandname.com. (Laughs) No, there’s a British folklore story about the Tower of London. There’s always been ravens kept at the Tower of London, and the legend is that if these ravens ever start to leave the grounds and fly away, then the British Empire will fall. So that’s kind of where the title came from. I think we tried to just explore or use every opportunity to make something interesting, just to spark something off in, you know, your imagination basically. You know, the band name, the artwork, the songs. Every opportunity got to be creative. Kind of really delve into it just ‘cause it’s kind of what we like to do. It’s what we like consuming as fans as well. It has a bit more depth to it, I guess.
Do you file the band’s name under R or under T? I have trouble with band names starting with The.
(Laughs) Yeah. So true. I would go under R, ‘cause otherwise you’d never find it. But I know what you mean.
What year did the band actually start? The first embryo of it there in the beginning.
Well, the actual band. We did our first show, just like a showcase thing, at a local studio, in 2014. It was, like, February 2014. You know, before that we were obviously jamming and writing songs for quite a while. And even before we had the bandmembers in. It was myself and Dan Wright, the other guitar player, who started the band. I mean, the very, very first sort of get-together of us two just throwing some ideas around must have been, like… I think I must have been about 18 or something. So, yeah, God, in 2009, I think. Yeah, long time ago. (Laughs) Obviously, it was nothing more than a bit of fun for a good few years, and it sort of just snowballed into a bigger deal.
When I look around a little bit, I can only find you and Dan as band members before 2012.
Yeah, Matty joined first. It was me, Matty, Dan, and a laptop for a long time. I think that was the best…
Matty overhears the conversation and goes:
The glory days.
Back to George:
Yeah. (Laughs) The best lineup. And yeah, and then Jai joined, and then finally our previous singer (Michael Burrough) for a few years, and then MJ joined us in the beginning of 2018.
It’s kind of odd actually that Dan was an original member of the band, and suddenly he’s the manager instead. How come that happened?
We kind of always had that mindset. You know, he worked in marketing for a company anyway, so he knew the business side of starting, you know, a band / company, whatever. He kind of used to geek out about that sort of thing. He’s very, you know, business-minded, organized, and will take care of that side of it. And it was just like a natural step to get into music management. He always said that he didn’t wanna be a touring musician, and be away from home all the time. That’s not what he wanna do, but he loves music. You know, he’s a writer as well. And while he hasn’t done much these days, but he plays a bit more piano these days. Yes, it’s funny to go back and see pictures and videos of him on stage with us ‘cause he’s not associating with that anymore. You know what I mean? He’s like a suit now.
Did you do something musically before you were starting The Raven Age?
Yeah, yeah. My first sort of musical, like, show, was just a band at school with a group of mates. I was, like, 14. And a funny story: The first note I ever played live was wrong. (Laughs) The first note. It was the easiest song we’ve all been playing. And we played a few kind of pop / punky songs like Green Day, and Foo Fighters, and stuff like that. Just some covers. And there is a lighting person… They did, you know, a sort of dramatic lights off / lights on thing. They turned the lights off, and I couldn’t see what I was playing, so I just played the wrong chord, so. You know, it was a bad omen. (Laughs) Yeah, after that I joined my cousin’s band The World On Fire, as a bass player actually, for about two or three years, as the bass player had a baby and left the band, whatever. And I went on my first tour. Like a European tour with them, which was fun. We supported a band called Oceansize. Yeah, a lot of fun to play away on the bass.
By Tobbe – Published September 30th, 2024
Apocalyptica is at the moment out in Europe playing a set of Metallica songs, and yesterday, before the show in Stockholm, Metal Covenant was getting some time to talk with cellist Paavo Lötjönen.
Why was it time to make a second Plays Metallica album?
You know, it’s already 28 years since we did the first album. We were thinking that there were still so many songs we wanted to record. We have always been thinking that it would be great to make versions of those songs, like Blackened, and (The Call Of) Ktulu, and Ride The Lightning. This is kind of a farewell to the Metallica songs also. As you know, we have done a lot of our own music, and maybe in the future we will concentrate on our own music. This is kind of also showing what we have learned during all these 28 years, and I hope you can hear the difference. If I’m listening to the first album, in kind of a way it sounds horrible to my ears, but in some kind of way it’s also really fascinating. We did something right in those days, and we breached out some good energy, and maybe that’s a thing that people feel. On this album we truly wanted to find a new approach for the songs, and try to find, like, new Apocalyptica look-alike versions for the songs, and find the same spirit, or maybe a different spirit, which is closer to Apocalyptica.
Is there any big difference between playing your original songs and playing the Metallica stuff?
If you think technically, no, not really. There’s also the same tricky riffs and rhythmical playing in Apocalyptica’s own material. But the Metallica songs became like a trademark for Apocalyptica in the early days. That guided us to that kind of playing, which was really untypical for the classical playing. To be honest, string instruments like cellos and violins are not really made for that kind of really accurate and hard, fast rhythmical playing. In that sense it was something new. For example, we created totally new kind of bowing techniques, like technical things how to play the cello. We are using different hairs in the bows. So normally you are used to white hairs, and we have changed that to, like, black hairs. We use different rosins, which make a tighter grip, which allows us to play, like, rhythmical, and it’s really accenting, and the attack on the notes is more aggressive. Sometimes when we want to play, like, the melodies and beautiful lines, we use just like a normal, classical cello bow. But for these riffs, and fast playing, we use these black hair bows. So this is kind of an evolution of cello playing, in a sense.
Sometimes the songs on the album are pretty similar, or as similar as they can be, but sometimes they are a little bit different than the original tunes.
The guideline was to make them sound like Apocalyptica, and not like Metallica. It would be totally stupid to play the cover songs if they sound the same as Metallica did. So we didn’t want to copy anything. We wanted to give our perspective on the music; not their performance. And maybe also show that those classical, legendary songs are really good compositions and good songs. And that’s the main reason why we did it, I think. Metallica did their performance of the songs, and now we did our performance for the same songs. The be honest, in the classical world, there are hundreds of orchestras playing the same songs all the time, and giving them their own versions. It’s nothing new. We did the same thing now. In the classical world it’s not called a cover. It wouldn’t be like, “Stockholm Symphonic Orchestra playing Beethoven covers.”. (Laughs)
For example, the version of Ride The Lightning on the album ends with a part of the song Escape. Where do ideas like that come from?
We have played Escape in the past, but we never recorded that. So it’s good to hide these kind of funny things. You know, reminders. For the audience and the listeners, who really know the songs, it’s like, “Oh, I know this one.”. And that’s kind of a fun thing. Escape was one of the first songs we played, in the past, like in the beginning of the ‘90s. Maybe it was the second or third Metallica song Eicca did. We played that song already before we were Apocalyptica. I know it sounded horrible, but it was a lot of fun.
You guys haven’t recorded so many songs off the first Metallica record Kill ‘Em All. Are those songs not well-rounded enough for you guys to record? Or are they maybe not as good as the songs on the Ride The Lightning and the Master Of Puppets albums?
Of course we were thinking about those as well. But we were more inspired by these songs. We didn’t want to think that, “We should take many songs from this album, or this album.”, or something like that. There are many albums we didn’t play any songs from.
And nothing from the last three albums. You did St. Anger though.
Actually, that’s one of our favorite songs on the live shows. It’s a really extreme, hardcore song. I think the arrangement we did is really kicking and fits very well for the cellos. And the outro, with the slower tempo, is really a lot of fun to play. And actually that’s a really, really good song. I think there are many, many good songs on their new albums, but you know, those songs on their first albums are so iconic that it would be hard to beat, for anybody. There is a reason why those songs are so successful. You know, iconic marks in the history of metal music.
What did it take for you guys to get two of the Metallica guys (James Hetfield and Robert Trujillo) to make guest appearances on the album? I guess money didn’t help, because that wouldn’t make a difference for them.
No, they didn’t ask for any money for this. They did it for free. You know, the first time we played as a support for them was in ’96, and since then we have been playing a couple of times as their support band, and we’ve been in contact. When they did S&M, with the symphony orchestra, they said that we were kind of an inspiration for them to create that concept. You know, in those days they invited us to see the recordings and, you know, the performance. So they have been aware of us. We have never been, like, pushing ourselves too much for them. And you know, we know them, like privately. We haven’t dared to ask them before, but now we came to the point that, “Maybe we could ask them something.”. And of course, you know, they own the rights to the songs. They earn more money from this album than we do. (Laughs) If you would think about it that way. But of course, they are successful millionaires. They don’t need any money from this. But they wanted to do things which they feel has a meaning. And of course, if we do the songs and an album of their music, it elevates their status, because it shows their iconic place in the metal history.
You have only played a few shows on this tour yet. It’s a long way to go.
The first show was in Helsinki in June. Metallica was playing in Helsinki on Friday and on Sunday, and we were playing on Saturday. That was the opening show, and last week we played in Dubai, and Athens, and two shows in Istanbul. So now we have started the European tour, which runs until December. Then next year we continue with the Finnish shows, and then we go to the US.
I guess that the fans have been singing along to these Metallica songs so far.
Yes, of course. Yeah, that’s the thing. It’s having fun and enjoying the music together. That’s the best way. You know, what’s live music? When we had the Covid, and we did some streams, half of the music was missing, you know. Live music is making the music magical, when there’s an interaction between the musicians and the audience. The music itself is the bridge between us all. So that unites people. It brings a magical energy, and that’s why people want to go and see the live shows. It’s so deep in people’s souls that we want to have a moment where we kind of unite with the other people around. That’s a step away from the skepticism, you know. Get yourself free, and don’t be too serious all the time, and enjoy your life. You know, those kinds of things. That’s a good way to enjoy your life, like go to the live show, and get excited and delighted, and feel energetic.
Do you sell more tickets than you usually do, now when you’re out playing the Metallica songs?
This is a tricky thing. We have quite a strong Apocalyptica fanbase, with hardcore Apocalyptica fans. It looks like they are not really, like, super delighted of this Metallica concept. They are kind of nagging, “I have seen this show 15 years ago.”. But in the end they are still coming to the show. (Laughs) Kind of complaining, like, “That’s not original anymore.”. They are conservative. But don’t be conservative. Be open for other things. Of course, if you know all the Metallica songs by heart, you can get more out of this. You know, if you know the songs, and you can hear the difference of the arrangement, and you can sing the lyrics together, of course, it gives you more. If you don’t know songs like Battery and Blackened, you might be like, “Oh, this is quite a heavy song. I don’t know this at all.”. Blackened is really complex, but if you know the song, it’s kind of a boost.
Was it kind of difficult to go back to recording Metallica songs when you have done your own songs now for such a long time?
Of course it was a big challenge, but nah. You know, it’s music. It’s not… Yeah, you know.
Do you have a bunch of ideas now for a coming Apocalyptica album with original songs?
To be honest, not yet. We have just been throwing some ideas for the future. You know, this tour will last for two years, and during these two years we will create the new music for the next one. In the last two years we have done shows in Finland, where we played, like, church concerts. As you know, the Christian church in Finland and Scandinavia is quite liberal, and in Finland it was possible to bring the kind of church show concept to the churches, where we played all those mellow, slow, and maybe more moody songs of our repertoire, which are not really like rock songs. We basically were sitting down. It fitted perfectly for the, like, majestic churches. And people were crying, and you know, were really touched. We released the church live album last year, and maybe that could be kind of a project that we can bring to other countries as well. It would be, like, inspiring after this, because then it would be totally different again.
My final question. Most bands say that they are unique, but could it be more unique than cellos playing heavy metal?
I don’t know if it’s unique, but it’s crazy. Don’t try this at home, I would say. (Laughs) To be honest, cello is a too difficult instrument for rock music.
It’s something you’ve got to start with I guess when you’re young as well. Like, don’t start playing it when you’re, like, 40, or whatever.
Of course you can start at the age of 40, but then, just enjoy that, you know. Don’t expect too much. (Laughs)
By Tobbe – Published September 22nd, 2024
Metal Covenant träffade Eclipse-gitarristen Magnus Henriksson på ett café i Stockholm förra veckan för att prata om bandets nya skiva Megalomanium II.
När kom den här idén inom bandet till två Megalomanium-skivor?
Det var någon idé som Erik kom på. Han hade någon vinylfest hemma hos sig. De hade någon utmaning att köra dubbelskivor och då satte han på en platta med Smashing Pumpkins, Mellon Collie And The Infinite Sadness, och då fick han någon dum idé, bara ”Tänk vad dumt det vore att göra en dubbelskiva. Nu har vi gjort nio skivor. Det är kanske dags att hitta på någon riktigt idiotisk idé.”. Och så frågade han oss andra och vi bara ”Ja, det är ju kommersiellt självmord, men jävligt kul.”. Men sedan kom vi på, av praktiska skäl, att det kanske är dumt att släppa båda på en gång. Det blir för mycket att konsumera liksom. Elva låtar räcker, tänkte jag där, så ”Nämen, då gör vi en 1 och en 2 och delar upp den och så släpper vi den andra ett år senare.”. Så att det var så idén kom till helt enkelt. Så alla låtar är skrivna och inspelade i samma era. Så att det är inte två olika skivor. Det är inspelat som en dubbelskiva. Det är bara det att vi splittat på låtarna och fördelat så att båda plattorna har lika många singlar och så vidare.
Vilket får mig att tänka på att ni säkert har lite material redan nu för en kommande skiva, nu när ni har haft, ja, kanske ett och ett halvt år på er att göra någonting.
Nej, nu har det faktiskt varit lugnt. Vi har faktiskt ingenting. Erik har ju jobbat med den kommande W.E.T.-skivan också. Så det har varit fullt upp på alla fronter. Nej, det har faktiskt inte funnits någon tid. Men det finns ju alltid små grundidéer och så där, men det är inga färdiga låtar alls. Ingenting. Nu tänkte vi ta det lugnt ett tag. Nu har vi ju två plattor att turnera på i två år framöver.
Ni har ju faktiskt börjat spela låtar från den andra plattan live, med början i mars redan, då jag såg er.
Ja, precis. Då körde vi Apocalypse Blues. Allteftersom singlarna har släppts så har vi inkluderat dem i setet.
12 månaders mellanrum är ganska kort för att vara Eclipse. Ni har ju aldrig släppt två plattor så tätt. Känner ni liksom att ni har på något sätt blivit färdiga med nummer 1 nu live och är redo för nummer 2 redan?
Nä, det är vi väl inte. Men man märker efter ett tag vilka låtar som funkar live och vilka som stannar kvar. Så att nu kommer vi ju kanske behålla två eller tre låtar från första skivan och sedan är det mest fokus på det nya då. Och sedan ska man försöka trycka in lite gamla klassiker också. Det är alltid svårt med setlisten liksom. Men nu på den här turnén blir ju tyngden på den här nya skivan som kommer.
Ni har ju kommit till den punkten nu, att nu är det ju många fans som börjar bli nästan lite nostalgiska när det gäller era skivor. Till exempel är ju Bleed & Scream redan 12 år och många av de nutida fansen har ju riktiga favoritlåtar därifrån, som ni får plocka bort live för att det inte finns plats för dem.
Nä, jag vet. Det är så jävla synd. Men vi börjar försöka trycka in några klassiker nu i alla fall, för vi har fått så mycket klagomål. Och jag vill själv spela de här gamla låtarna. Jag älskar dem. De är skitroliga.
Ja, det enda alternativet man har är väl att sluta ge ut nya skivor.
Ja, det är väl det. Eller så får man göra som Scorpions och börja göra medleyn av gamla låtar. De brukar köra ett ballad-medley och så kör de ett 70-tals-medley och så vidare. Lite tråkigt, men om man ska göra alla nöjda, så. (Skratt)
Nej, det går inte. Det är helt omöjligt. Det är en evigt pågående diskussion som är helt omöjlig att lösa.
Ja. Och vi har väl ingen guldålder heller, där vi var som störst, utan vi har ju liksom utvecklats hela tiden. Det är ju annat med AC/DC, då man ju självklart vill höra Back In Black och Highway To Hell och så. Men vi har inte gett upp ännu och utvecklas förhoppningsvis fortfarande.
Du kan ju ses som lite mer metal med ditt andra band Knights Of The Realm, så vilken typ av låt föredrar du mest, en snabbare låt som till exempel Divide & Conquer eller kanske en lite lugnare låt som Still My Hero?
Jag tycker inte att det spelar så stor roll. Är det en bra låt så tycker jag att det är jävligt kul att spela den. Jag menar, det finns dåliga snabba metal-låtar och det är ju inte kul att spela liksom. Jag spelar hellre en bra låt, oavsett vilket arrangemang den är i liksom.
Är det svårt att veta hur man ska lägga upp en skiva, med antal hårda, mid-tempo och lugna låtar?
Vi har alltid någon idé… Eller vi tror att vi har några idéer innan vi ska göra en skiva, ”Ja, den här skivan kanske borde bli mer så.” och så blir det aldrig så ändå, utan man skriver bara och det som kommer ut kommer ut, och det sker naturligt. Jag tror vi har försökt styra varenda skiva i någon riktning, men det har alltid spruckit, varenda gång.
Med Divide & Conquer, kanske delvis Pieces och någon låt till så känner jag att det låter lite som Bleed & Scream och kanske till och med ännu äldre och tillbaka till Are You Ready To Rock. Hur blir det så, att man på något sätt kanske backar i musiken, men ändå går framåt?
Det börjar oftast med att man bara sitter och spelar gitarr. Kanske bara sitter och övar, eller spelar för att det är kul, och rätt som det är så kanske det bara kommer någon grej, ”Oj, det där har jag inte gjort förut. Det var roligt.”. Så det är bara helt spontant liksom. Och det blir oftast 80-talsriff, när man bara sitter och jammar liksom. Det är ju i den ådran man är stöpt. Men det finns många olika sätt att skriva låtar på. Man gör det på gitarr, och ibland får man någon sångmelodi som man utgår ifrån och då blir det ett helt annat tänk, och ibland kan man sitta med en akustisk gitarr och då blir det en annan typ av låt. Man riffar ju inte när man spelar akustisk gitarr. Då sitter man mer och bara tänker songwriter liksom. Så det finns så många olika sätt att starta på när man skriver en låt.
Du måste ju ändå hålla dig inom någon form av Eclipse-ram, så har du någon tanke på att det inte blir för utsvävande när du skriver?
Jo, men vi är ju ändå ganska breda, så vi kan göra ganska mycket. Men det är klart, det får inte bli för mycket åt något håll. Det får inte låta för mossigt och klichéigt liksom. De idéerna sparar jag till Knights Of The Realm, för där kan vi ju göra det precis hur lökigt och klichéigt som helst, vilket är ganska befriande. Men det ska ändå låta lite nytt och lite fräscht med Eclipse. Det är väl tanken liksom. Någon slags ny idé, nytt tänk, på något sätt.
Hur ser du på bandets utveckling under det senaste decenniet, alltsedan Eclipse i alla fall började bli ett lite större band och började synas lite?
Jag tycker vi hittade vår egen stil redan på Bleed & Scream, där vi visste hur vi skulle skriva och det började låta som Eclipse. Sedan skivorna efter det, det är väl att vi har hittat mer influenser att ta ifrån, att det har blivit bredare liksom. Vi började ju ha lite folkmusikinfluenser på Bleed & Scream och sedan har vi tagit in mer och mer pop-tänk på några låtar, och även andra genrer liksom. Vi har otroligt många influenser. Det är väl inte att vi tagit någon direkt idé från någon, utan att det är mer influerat. Men om jag skulle säga influenserna, så skulle du säkert säga ”Aha. Ja, det stämmer ju.”. I början tror man att ”Nej, vi kan inte låta som det här. Vi kan inte gå så här långt.”. Men sedan har vi gjort det ändå och så bara ”Hoppsan. Nu har vi liksom gått ännu längre.”. Så vi har väl breddat oss, med influenserna. Det är väl det som är utvecklingen, får jag väl säga. Annars är ju formeln på låtarna ganska enkla. Det är ju liksom vers, refräng, musik, med riff.
Tycker du att alla de här låtarna är enkla för dig att spela?
Jo, de är väl ganska enkla. Det är väl ingenting jag kämpar med direkt, det kan jag ju säga. Och om man varit med och skrivit musiken själv, då skriver man ju det man är bra på. Man använder ju sin egen ammunition liksom. Nej, det är svårare att spela andras musik. Vår musik är inte utmanande tekniskt, inte på gitarr i alla fall. Det är värre att sjunga. Det är extremt svårt att sjunga Eclipse-låtarna. Det låter inte svårt, men det är extremt svårt att sjunga som Erik gör, för han sjunger väldigt långa, långa höga toner och ligger på samma höga register under hela tiden. Och det är svårt. Det är otroligt krävande för en sångare.
Är ni oroliga för hans röst ibland?
Han är orolig, hela tiden. Han har så mycket ångest, och han piskar sig själv så hårt, och är aldrig nöjd med sin röst. Men jag vet ju hur svårt det är att sjunga det här, så man förstår ju hans ångest. Han måste ju vara i topptrim hela tiden.
Övning har ju också gett färdighet. Jag tycker han sjunger bättre nu än för typ 16 år sedan.
Ja, det gör han. Verkligen. Han har utvecklats konstant. Han är 47 år snart och han har bara blivit bättre liksom. De flesta sångare brukar ju börja gå neråt i den här åldern. I hans fall är det helt tvärtom.
Han kanske inte är helt otränad heller och det kanske inte är alltför mycket konstiga grejer som kommer in i kroppen.
Nämen, precis. Och han sjunger ju rätt. Han sjunger på ett hälsosamt sätt. Rent, och han tar hand om rösten. Han dricker inte en 75:a Jack Daniel’s och skriker backstage innan och sabbar rösten. Han gillar ju att dricka öl, men han tar det ju lugnare när vi är ute och spelar. Hade han bara spelat gitarr, då hade han ju druckit öl hela tiden, för han älskar ju öl.
När du och Erik sitter där och skriver låtar tillsammans, eller då ni skriver på egen hand och presenterar låtar, då vill man ju gärna tro att två låtskrivare tycker att de är så bra tillsammans, men hur är det egentligen, rycks ni lätt med, eller är ni kritiska?
Vi är skitkritiska. Vi får höra av varandra. Jag säger ju direkt att ”Nej, jag tycker inte att det här var bra.”. Och det är samma med Erik också. Oftast har man ju rätt. Det är ju lätt att gå igång på sina egna idéer liksom. Men om båda gillar det, då vet vi verkligen att vi har något på gång. Då funkar det. Nej, vi sågar och vi slänger hur mycket idéer som helst. För en skiva, som är färdig, så lär det vara 30 eller 40 idéer som vi har skrotat för att få fram 11 låtar typ.
Kan ni komma så långt att ni kommit en bra bit på en låt och sedan skrotar den?
Ja, men det händer. Ibland tar man isär delarna på en låt. Den kanske har en jättebra vers, en jättebra refräng, jättebra riff, men de delarna ihop har inget flow. Och då går det inte att få klart en låt, även fast alla delar är skitbra. Då får man lägga den åt sidan och sedan man kanske senare plockar någon del från den här låten som kanske passar jättebra till en annan idé. Så det är lite så man får jobba. Vissa idéer kan ju ta flera år, för att de inte har hittat hem riktigt. Individuellt så är det jättebra idéer, men en låt måste ha ett naturligt flow också. Skriver man till exempel en jättemelodiös vers till en låt och sedan gör man en jättemelodiös refräng, då tar de ut varandra. Det måste vara lite tension och release, ”Ja, det skaver lite.” och sedan ska refrängen kanske vara lite release. Att där ska det släppa liksom. Det är det tänket. Vi brukar kalla det för att man bränner sitt melodiska kapital. Man måste hålla inne på det. Det finns den här låten med Midnight Oil som heter Beds Are Burning. Verserna, det är bara blaj. Det händer ingenting. Han bara mumlar och sedan är det någon basgång. Och så bara baum, baum, baum, och så kommer refrängen och då blir det totalsläpp. Och det blev ju en jättestor hit, men det är egentligen bara refrängen som är någonting att ha. Men det funkar ju, de delarna ihop.
Det är inte som gamla Black Sabbath, där verserna är helt fantastiska och det inte ens finns refränger.
Nämen, där behövs det inte refränger riktigt. Det är inte sådan musik. I metal, eller i gammal hårdrock, där behövs inga refränger liksom. Det är riff, bra vers, ett långt solo. Det är allt de behöver. (Skratt)
Vilka låtar på den här nya plattan känns mest som typ dina låtar? Vad har du lagt ditt största arbete på?
The Spark jobbade jag och Erik väldigt mycket med. Det var lite influerat av E-Type faktiskt. Eurodisco fast vi gjorde det på gitarr istället. Och sista låten, One In A Million, var väldigt kul. Mycket riff och roligt solo. Det är väl de två som sticker ut för mig spontant.
One In A Million har ju ett par rader på svenska. Det låter jävligt bra och gammeldags. Var kom den idén ifrån?
Det var faktiskt min idé. Jag var med när Erik höll på att lägga sången sent på kvällen, och så är det något pampigt parti, och så helt plötsligt så sjunger jag bara spontant ”Öppna din dörr för mig.”, och så sa jag bara ”Sjung det. Prova att sjunga det på svenska.” och ”Fan, det lät ju bra. Det passar in.”. Det har ingenting med låten att göra. ”Öppna din dörr för mig” lät ju så här Nordman-aktigt på något vis. Melodin som går där är väldigt svensk folkmusik. Det är någon så här harmonisk mollskala som är väldigt vanlig i svensk folkmusik och då kom den här frasen bara naturligt ur huvudet för mig. Det är väl därför det känns naturligt, för att ”Jamen, det här låter svenskt.”.
Förr i tiden tycker jag ni har turnerat lite för lite, och jag vet att Erik kanske inte har älskat att turnera, men nu verkar ni ha höjt antalet gig och festivaler.
Absolut. Det är väl två saker. Både att bandet har blivit lättare att boka. Folk vill ha oss. Och att vi har en väldigt bra bokare nu, som vi har jobbat med de senaste fyra åren. Nikolas Krofta från Bottom Row Booking. Och han jobbar hela tiden. Och är väldigt hård i förhandlingarna, vilket är bra för oss. Han ser ju till att vår aktie stiger. Så det är väl de största anledningarna. Han blev vår bokare när det började gå som bäst för oss också, så därav har antalet gig ökat avsevärt. Alltså, alla älskar ju att turnera. Jag skulle kunna vara ute månader i sträck. Jag har inga problem med det. Jag har ju ingen familj eller något sådant där. Men Erik och Philip, som har familjer, de vill ju gärna inte vara ute längre än två veckor, eftersom de haft småbarn hemma och så där, och det är ju förståeligt.
Var det just därför Philip inte var med på några gig här i somras?
Ja, han har haft problem att få ihop det med familjen, så då har Robin (Nilsson) hoppat in på vissa spelningar. Men det är bara bra att det har kunnat lösa sig i alla fall.
Blir det någon större skillnad när du står där ute som gitarrist på scenen och har en annan trummis?
Det beror helt på trummisen. Jag kan säga: Robin är så jävla bra, så när han hoppar in… Det var som vanligt. Han var så välplankad och förberedd, så att då ”Jaha. Okej, vad skönt.”. Jag behövde inte ens titta bakåt på trummisen. Jag behövde inte oroa mig. Men det är helt olika beroende på vem man spelar med. Men all kredd till Robin.
När ska ni då ta det sista steget upp till de största scenerna kvällstid på festivaler då? Ni är ju inte riktigt där än.
Vi klättrar ju långsamt. I hårdrocksvärlden så är det ju bara lång och trogen tjänst som gör att man kliver. Det märks ju inte minst på headliners idag, var de började. Jag menar Sabaton. De gick från ingenting till att headlinea Sweden Rock. De har haft en otrolig resa som band. Och hatten av, de har jobbat hårt, så inåt helvete. De har gjort allting rätt.
Det krävs väl skicklighet, vilja, tur, tillfälligheter.
Allting måste liksom klaffa. Det här begåvning, det är så lite av hela grejen. Man ska jobba hårt, vara ihärdig, hålla på, aldrig ge upp, och man ska ha bra människor runt omkring sig. Det ska vara bra bokare, det ska vara bra producenter, det ska vara bra management. Alla ska vara bra runt omkring en. Det märker man ju på vissa artister, som Yngwie Malmsteen, som är världens bästa gitarrist, men han lyckas omge sig med sämsta tänkbara människor, som förstör hans karriär liksom. Vilket är så otroligt synd. Det hade kunnat vara så bra. Nej, rätt folk. Är hela organisationen bra så kan det gå hur långt som helst.
Ni sköter ju mycket själv. Erik sitter ofta själv och producerar och mixar till exempel. Men har ni någon fundering på att någon gång kunna släppa lite till någon annan person, med risk för att det inte skulle låta likadant längre?
Jag skulle inte ha något emot den idén. Jag har svårt att tänka mig att Erik skulle kunna släppa det 100 %. Han vill gärna tycka om allting. Det vore kul att testa, men jag har svårt att tänka mig att han kan släppa det rodret där. Om det fanns budget för att ta in precis den man vill, då skulle det vara väldigt kul. Både jag och Erik gillar ju Laleh till exempel. Och det var en gång, på skoj, då sa vi ”Tänk om vi skulle ha Laleh som producent. Hon är så jäkla bra på arrangemang och prod.”. Så fick vi någon dum idé, ”Vi skriver till henne. Ja, vi gör det, på skoj.”. Så vi fick tag i hennes management och skrev ett mejl, ”Hej. Hur mycket skulle Laleh ta för att producera vår skiva?”. Då fick vi något formellt svar, ”Ja, då kommer det kosta 50,000 dollar per låt.” och ”Oh, okej.”. Det var kul att vi fick svar i alla fall. (Skratt) Det var lite hårt att få det svaret. Jag tycker det var jävligt coolt.
Nu tänkte jag backa lite. Varför blev det gitarr för dig som ung grabb en gång i tiden långt uppe i norr?
Det har mest att göra med att farsan var gitarrist, så det låg ju alltid en gitarr hemma. Sedan någon dag, när jag var nio, så tog jag fram den och började plinka på den och märkte att jag kunde hitta melodier, ”Åh, det här var ju kul.”. Och sedan tvingade jag farsan att börja lära mig ackord och ackordföljder. Så det var så det började helt enkelt. Och sedan var jag fast och satt varje dag med gitarren.
Barn nuförtiden har många andra saker att göra. Är det ett avslutat kapitel att kunna sitta och traggla? För jag förstår ju att du satt många timmar med gitarren.
Jomen, det är en sådan här fråga som vi brukar ställa oss ganska ofta, med alla distraktioner som finns nu, ”Kommer det ens finnas ungar som kommer att nörda in så mycket på bara en gitarr?”. Det finns mycket annat kul att göra på sin iPad och på datorn. Jag är inte säker på att jag hade börjat öva om jag hade haft alla distraktioner då som jag har nu. Nej, jävligt svårt att säga. Men det är väl klart, är man tillräckligt intresserad av musik, så. Eriks barn, till exempel, de har ju startat band. De är väl 15 och 18 och de har börjat köra stenhårt. Yngsta killen, Sam, som spelar gitarr, sitter ju och övar varje dag nu. Han har ju testat lite allt möjligt, men nu helt plötsligt har han nördat in på gitarr, vilket är skitkul. Så att det finns hopp fortfarande. Har man börjat repa med ett band, spelat lite hårdrock och märker hur kul det är, då är man smittad liksom. Då är det svårt att sluta.
Kan du ärligt svara på om du blir bättre eller sämre på gitarr med åren, eller håller du samma klass?
Jag skulle bara säga att jag blir bättre, helt klart. Jag menar, tekniskt så har jag inte försämrats någonting. Det sitter liksom. Den biten är färdig. Och spontant och improvisationsmässigt så blir man bara bättre med åren, desto mer man spelar liksom. Det är min 100 % ärliga åsikt.
Jag snackade nämligen med gamla W.A.S.P.-gitarristen Chris Holmes när han var här och spelade härom veckan. Han sa något i stil med att han har blivit äldre och att han inte bryr sig ett skit om det blir exakt som på plattan, typ ”Jag försöker lira solon ganska nära vad det ska vara.”.
Han har ju alltid varit en bra gitarrist. Jag träffade ju honom förra året på Monsters Of Rock-kryssningen. Vi spelade på förfesten och efter gigget stormar Chris Holmes in i logen och säger ”Where’s the guitar player? Where’s the guitar player?” och han mer eller mindre nästan puttade bort Erik, och ”There you are.” och så säger han på engelska ”Fan vilket jävla bra gitarrljud du har. Fan, jag har inte hört en gitarrist spela så här bra på senaste 30 åren. Incredible, man.”. Han började fråga om mitt gitarrljud och vad jag hade för grejer och så. Jag bara ”Oj, vad kul. Vilken ära att du är här.”. Jag blev ju alldeles tagen, att han var där och började prata med mig. Det hade jag inte räknat med. Jävligt roligt.
Du är ju bandets obestridlige förstegitarrist. Brukar Erik vara lite avis på dig?
Alltså, Erik älskar ju att spela gitarr. Erik är ju gitarrist först och främst. Som han säger själv, att han var en gitarrist som råkade kunna sjunga och därför blev han sångare i band. Men så råkar han sjunga fantastiskt bra, så det är klart att en sådan talang kan ju inte… Ja, han har ju aldrig suttit och övat gitarr som jag har gjort. Jag har ju mer utvecklats på gitarr och han har utvecklats på sång. Så att, ja, han kan ju inte spela som jag (Skratt), så han kan ju inte få lead-gitarristrollen liksom. Men han är nöjd med att någon tar den biten liksom. Man får inse vad man är bra på helt enkelt.
Får du tillräckligt med kredd i Eclipse? Får du kredd för dina låtar? Eller tycker du mycket går till Erik? Inte för att du är den typen som är typ ”Titta på mig!”.
Nej, jag är ju inte den typen. Erik får ju mest kredd, men det är helt naturligt i ett band. Han är ju frontman och sångare. Men jag känner inte att jag behöver mer kredd eller så. Det gör jag inte. De som vet, de vet. (Skratt)
Nu var ju Philip hemma lite under turnén i somras, men det känns fan som att Eclipse har den stabilaste uppställningen, med Vicke på basen, som ni någonsin har haft.
Ja, det skulle jag säga. Det här är vår riktiga laguppställning, som vi alltid har sökt efter. Tidigare har det varit inhopp, det har varit tillfälliga lösningar och det har liksom aldrig varit ett stabilt gäng. Men nu känns det verkligen så. Nu är det originalmedlemmarna, även fast det är en sen uppsättning. Vi har haft många uppsättningar innan, men nu känns det original, med sköna karaktärer.
Jag måste fråga lite kort om Knights Of The Realm innan vi avslutar. Ni släppte ju andra plattan, Darker Than Leather, i maj. Kan du berätta lite om det bandet i stort för de som inte har koll på ditt sidoprojekt?
Det är ju ett pandemiprojekt från början. Det började med att jag och trummisen Lars (Sköld) satt och drack öl bara. Vi var så deppiga och hade inget att göra. Och så fick vi någon dum idé att vi skulle skriva ner 40 ord, så här metal-ord, klichéord, som fire, death, glory, hammer, steel. Sedan skickade vi de här orden till sångaren Marcus (von Boisman) och bara ”Du får använda de här orden. Skriv en låt som heter Heavy Metal.” och så 10 minuter senare skickade han tillbaka en färdig text. Vi tänkte ”Fan vad du är snabb. Då går vi och spelar in den här låten i Lars studio.”. Det var så bandet föddes liksom. (Skratt) Och vi hade ju inte ens tänkt att släppa det här, utan det här var ju bara för vårt eget nöje. Meningen var inte att det skulle bli bra eller något sådant. Det var bara det att vi tyckte det var så fruktansvärt kul att spela in hårdrocksklichéer och garva åt det. Och rätt som det var så hade vi väl en 10 låtar och då frågade Suzan Kverh, vår goda vän på Playground Music, ”Fan, kan vi inte släppa det? Det vore kul.”. Hon ville släppa det och göra något eget, och så här ”Nja. Ska vi verkligen släppa det här?”. Ja, och sedan släppte vi det. Jag kanske inte är 100 % nöjd med första skivan, men när vi gjorde andra skivan då tänkte vi ”Okej. Om det här ska släppas, då måste vi göra det mycket noggrannare och lägga ner lite mer energi och omsorg på det här.”, vilket jag tycker hörs. Ja, det gör det. Nämen, det är väl så, i korta drag, det bandet kom till. Och vi har ingen plan med bandet heller, utan vi tar det lite som det kommer. Vi försöker liksom inte sätta en massa gig och så där, men dyker det upp något så kör vi liksom. Det är lite skönt att vara kreativ utanför Eclipse också. De här ramarna är borta och här kan vi bara tramsa och ha det kul och garva liksom.
Ja, du har ju Knights Of The Realm och spelar live med Tiamat ibland, och Vicke har Långfinger, så tydligen är det skönt med något på sidan.
Jomen, det är det faktiskt. Nu har ju Eclipse blivit så mycket business och seriöst. I ett sådant band som Eclipse, allting är så allvarligt. Det är inte så mycket lek längre, vilket är tråkigt. Utan det är bara bandmöten, business-tänk och det är så lite av det här lekfulla och roliga, där egentligen allting började. Därför är det skönt att gå tillbaka till det, som med ett band som Knights Of The Realm, att ”Nu gör vi grejer bara för att det är kul.”. Vi skiter i om vi tjänar några pengar eller någonting. Så det är skönt att fly den här organisation som Eclipse är.
Alla band har ju den vägen att vandra på något sätt till slut.
Ja, och jag är ju tacksam att det har blivit så. Uppenbarligen har det gått bra för Eclipse. Varför man började med det här var ju för att man gillade att spela musik, och nu handlar det mer om logistik, och sälja tröjor, och bråka med skivbolag, och bråka med promotorer. Det är så lite spela gitarr. (Skratt) Man står en timme på scen och så är det 23 timmar allt annat bullshit runt omkring liksom. Det är konstigt hur det blir så.
Men ändå är det värt det då tydligen. Annars skulle du ju bara spela i Knights Of The Realm.
Ja, javisst, absolut. Nämen, jag är glad att jag kan få båda.
Du nämnde W.E.T. kort i början. Kan du berätta lite om vad som är på gång där?
Nämen, det är en ny skiva på gång. Den kommer släppas i februari. Det är väl ingen hemlighet. Jag är inte så involverad i den där skivan. Det är mest Eriks projekt det där, och Jeff (Scott Soto) och Robert Säll. Jag har ju bara spelat in gitarrsolon på den här skivan. Och jag har inte haft så mycket mer med den skivan att göra än så. Men W.E.T. är väl dömt att bara vara ett projektband. Det går liksom inte få ihop och göra någonting mer med bandet. Jeff har ju sina många projekt och vi har ju Eclipse, så kanske, om vi har tur, kan vi få ihop något gig. Vi har ju bara gjort en handfull gig totalt sedan bandet började.
De här solona. Skriver du mycket av dem själv, eller hjälps ni åt att skriva dem?
Vissa solon gör jag helt själv och vissa solon sitter Erik och mer knuffar mig åt ett visst håll, ”Prova att göra något mer sådant här.”. Ja, men det är lite både och. Ibland kan det vara bra att ha en coach, även när man spelar solon.
Av Tobbe – Publicerad 16:e september 2024
Metal Covenant got to spend an hour with Chris Holmes in Sundbyberg, Stockholm as the guitarist and his band were out in Sweden and Norway in late August playing special shows that contained almost only classic W.A.S.P. songs.
Will we get to see some new Chris Holmes solo stuff anytime soon?
Well, yeah. It’s in the works right now at home in the computer. The last few months I’ve been in a bad mood, so I haven’t turned on my computer, and I’ve been watching more shit on TV. But when I’m done doing this part of the tour, in Scandinavia, I’ll start finishing the songs. I just got to go through a bunch of the recorded stuff that’s on there and figure out what I’m gonna put together. Yeah, how I do the songs is I usually do the music all the way through first, you know. I got song titles, tons of them. And I’ll write all the titles there on the wall. On my wall in the basement, I glued up cork, so you can put pins in it, you know. And I’ll think of a song title, like Get With It, or In Gods Hands; anything like that, and I’ll sit back and just play the music until something comes to my head. That’s how I do it. I just got to get off my ass and do it. But I’ve been working on just doing this W.A.S.P. thing, you know. Right now I’m playing the Lyceum show. You know, that I did 40 years ago. W.A.S.P. came out in ’84, and we played here in 1984, in October.
Is there any other inspiration to write songs than having the song titles up there?
I just like putting ideas together. Music, and melodies, and certain things, you know. And I don’t listen to other music at all. I don’t know why. I mean, it’s like a car mechanic. When he gets off work, is he gonna go home and work on a car? But I should have taken care of my equipment more. I’ve been having problems with my equipment the last few days.
When you put out a new song, is it a blessing or a curse that most people will compare it with your old W.A.S.P. songs from the early days?
Well, you know, I don’t sing like Blackie, and I never will. I have a horrible voice. But I mean, they got bands now that scream, you know, and my voice ain’t that bad. There’s a lot of people that hate my voice. They think I’m the worst singer. They say I should never sing at all. A lot of people say I’m a horrible singer. But hey, if you don’t like it, don’t listen to it. There’s an off button, you know. Everybody’s got to judge everything. Of course they’re gonna judge, you know, my voice to Blackie’s voice. What they ought to do is take his solo albums and listen to the guitar on there. You know, the sound. The sound, the sound, that’s what music’s about. Sound, frequency, sound, you know. That’s the most important thing. So my voice sounds like shit; his sounds good. But my guitar sounds good. You know, I’m not gonna knock his stuff. You know, I don’t know if you call it disease, but I’ve got a mental thing called dyslexia. Didn’t know I had it until I was 37. So I can’t read that well. I wrote a song 11 years ago, Way To Be, and somebody goes, “His songwriting’s got the lyrics of a fifth grader.”, and I was like, “I’m kind of proud of that. Yeah, I am, ‘cause I read about as good as a fifth grader, man.”. So that’s what I write songs like, you know. Yeah, you know, it didn’t bother me. A fifth grader? I would be saying a fourth grader. (Laughs)
But you’re often both singing and playing guitar live on stage nowadays.
Yeah, but I won’t tonight. I’m doing all the songs off the Lyceum show, except The Flame and School Daze. But I’m doing every other song on that. And I didn’t sing, so the bass player I have, he’s in the middle singing. And I got another kid that plays guitar, and he does Randy’s parts. He plays all Randy’s guitar solos, just like on the Lyceum one. And then we play The Headless Children, we play 9.5.-N.A.S.T.Y., we play Wild Child, which wasn’t written then. We play those, and then I play I Don’t Need No Doctor and then we end with Rockin’ In The Free World. I always will end, ‘til the day I die, with Rockin’ In The Free World. I just like the song. Well, Neil Young, I mean, I can’t really sing any worse than he does. I’m not saying he sings bad, but it’s something that I can sing, and sound good for the song, you know. And the guitar playing is great. I love Neil Young. It’s a fucking great song, you know. Neil Young, he wrote the best guitar solo there has ever been on any album in the world, and it’s in a song called Cinnamon Girl. So listen to that solo. Best solo ever in the world, that any artist ever did. You know why? Because it’s one note. It’s one note, through the whole solo. (Laughs) It’s the best solo, I mean, you know, to me. To the way I look at things, it’s the best solo, you know.
Well, everyone’s opinion matters, I guess, when it comes to which is the best solo, and which isn’t.
Neil Young, you know, he can hit some sour notes on the guitar, I’ll say that. You know, one time I was doing a solo. We were in a studio somewhere. Blackie comes in and listen to what I did. He goes, “That’s out of tune. That’s flat.”, and I looked at him, and I went, “It’s not flat to me.”. It had energy. And he goes, “You got to change that note.”, and I go, “No, I like it.”, and he goes, “No, you got to change it.”, and I go, “Man, you ever heard Neil Young?”, and he goes, “Yeah.”, I go, “Does some of his guitar playing sound out of tune to you?”, and he goes, “Yeah.”, and I go, “Well, I bet it doesn’t to him.”. You know, I don’t wanna get on to kick on Blackie. He is what he is, you know. Did you go to Sweden Rock this year? Did you see W.A.S.P.?
Yes, I did.
He’s not looking really good, you know. And he’s only a year older than me. There was something wrong. I’m the one that had cancer. I should look bad, you know.
Well, he was sitting down through the whole show.
Plus sampling. The way the digital age is now, you can sample anything you want at any part of the time of the song, as long as the drummer plays to the click. I grew up sort of playing guitar like Humble Pie, Johnny Winter, Jimmy Page, Jeff Beck, Eric Clapton. I didn’t like B.B. King yet. When they played solos in the songs on the road, they never played the same thing twice. They played close melody to the thing. You know, like when Page played Stairway To Heaven, sure, he played pretty close to the melody, but he didn’t play the same exact fucking way every night. You know, that’s what makes a band. But I had to in W.A.S.P., and it makes it boring. Fucking boring shit.
We get interrupted by the promoter telling us Chris Laney has been texting him and is looking for Mr. Holmes. About a minute later we continue.
Do you know Chris Laney?
Well, he plays with the Danish band Pretty Maids and does a lot of other stuff as well.
I’m not saying this to be mean, but if somebody was in a band, and asked me to join the band Pretty Maids, I’d go, “Yeah, great. I’ll join it. But the day I join it, we’re changing the name, dude.”. ‘Cause I ain’t gonna play in a band called Pretty Ladies, you know what I mean? Just call it The Drunk Assholes, or something cool, and not Pretty Women. Kevin Du Brow had a band called Little Women. What the fuck! C’mon, man. C’mon, you know.
About not playing the songs exactly the same every time. When you play the old W.A.S.P. songs today, do you sometimes even cheat on some tricky stuff?
When the solo comes up, sometimes I try to play it close to what it is. Yeah, I try to play the same melody, you know. But now I’m older, and I would rather hit one note than 50,000 flashy ones. I’d rather hit one well-hit note. You just get older, and you just don’t give a fuck, you know. Like in Sleeping (In The Fire). When we played at the Lyceum, Randy played the first two revolutions, and I played the next two revolutions. He’d do one and two, I’d do three and four, he’d do five and six, I’d do seven and eight. And like I said, the other guy that we got, he plays Randy’s parts. So, he plays one and two, and when we get to three and four, at that point I don’t know what I’m gonna play. I play what I feel. What I wanna. And last night, I bent a note and I fucking… The way I learned to play was improvising. That’s the way I started playing music, you know. But when you go out and play live, and, “It has to sound like the record.”, why not just buy the record? One of the coolest bands I’ve ever seen was Deep Purple. They didn’t play nothing like the fucking record. They’re fucking killer, man. They fucking play, and they go into a jam, and fucking wail, you know. And I like doing what I do. You know, playing what I play. I played a few festivals, but I’ll never go back and play theaters. I don’t mind playing clubs, as long as I can sustain what I do. I enjoy playing. I like making people happy when they come see me play, you know. And I’m not Yngwie Malmsteen. I know that. I’ll never be that guy, you know.
Yngwie sings his songs as well now. He’s the vocalist of the band now.
Oh, yeah. He sings now? How long has he been doing it?
It’s been over ten years now, I would say.
Really. Is he sounding pretty good, or?
Nah, not really.
Yeah, but it’s cool. He still has a Swedish accent, but he’d probably sound okay, you know. I got to look him up and see if he does it. I know I did live, because I was working with Phil. Just Phil and I were working on a computer. He had a drum setup. Philthy Animal Taylor, you know. He needed somebody playing guitar, so we started working together. I’ve always played minor, like what Tony Iommi would play, a lot of what Blackmore would play, all minor evil sounding stuff. And, you know, I asked a friend of mine about this song. It was, like, Lynyrd Skynyrd, happy. Allman Brothers kind of guitar playing, which is happy. And he showed me how to play the major thing. I was like, “Woh, that’s kind of cool.”. So I wrote this riff to play the lead to the major thing, and we put it down on a computer, and then I was listening to it, and I put words to it. It’s called They All Lie And Cheat, and that’s the best thing I’d ever sing in my life, and Phil goes, “Chris. It’s not bad.”. So I wrote another one, and it just went from there. Believe me, not having to put up with LSD is worth my shitty little voice. I’m gonna do the rest of my record, but I’ll always go out and play the W.A.S.P. stuff. I’m gonna play in America next year, and I’m gonna play a 3-piece. Bass, drums, one guitar, and I’ve got a singer coming in. A guy from a band called Where Angels Suffer. Oh yeah, he played Sweden Rock here with Randy Piper.
Yeah, Rich Lewis.
Yeah, Rich is gonna sing for me in America. I’m not gonna have another guitar player. I like the sound of one guitar, you know. I like the sound, ‘cause when you play a lead, it’s just the bass and guitar. It’s how I always played in my whole life. I did W.A.S.P. ’cause, you know, well, you could kind of make money at it. Kind of. (Laughs) But anyway, Rich just went through a throat cancer, you know. He worked with Chris Laney and Randy. Rich is great, ‘cause I met him when I played with Animal. And then Rich got sick, and I talked to him while he was going through the cancer, while he was getting treatment and shit. And then six months later, after he did finish the treatment, I got it. I called up Rich, and go, “Rich, guess what? I got some good news and bad news. What do you wanna hear? The good news first? The good news is you’re not the only one that’s got cancer. And the bad news is I got the same thing.”. (Laughs) You know, I knew it’d be treatable from talking with him.
I think you have played with Randy in four different constellations over the years. Do you ever talk to him nowadays?
Randy is Randy, you know. He started that band Where Angels Suffer, and then I come in and play, and he gets thrown out of the band. His own band. That’s fucked up. Then they went and got this guy named Ira Black. I’m sure you’ve heard of him. He’s a mercenary guitar player. He came in and played, and they had the same problem with him as they did with Randy. And I was still in the band. Rich’s son died, and he went into a real heavy depression, and they were gonna get the R… What’s his name? He plays with KK Downing.
Tim “Ripper” Owens.
They said he was gonna sing, and they were gonna bring in, not Jay Jay French, but the other guy from Twisted Sister.
Eddie Ojeda.
He was gonna play guitar, and that guy sing, and then (Steve) Unger on bass, and Stet Howland on drums, and I was gonna be guitar. It was gonna be Where Angels Suffer. I guess everybody had agreed to it, and then something happened. I don’t know what, man. I was gonna come in to rehearsal, but, “Dude, I don’t give a fuck what, but we are gonna play We’re Not Gonna Take It.”. (Laughs) Oh yeah, “If we’re playing Animal and Wild Child, we’re playing that song, or I ain’t doing it.”. ‘Cause I wanted to play that. You know, I like that song.
You play a few cover songs on your solo shows.
I always play Highway To Hell, ‘cause I always ask some fans in the audience to come up and sing. Always. Give them a chance to sing. Yeah, that’s why I do it. The last two nights it’s been two little girls.
Maybe I’m misinformed, but did you play Ace Of Spades the other night as well?
No. But I’ve played it before. I played it with Chris Slade, and Keri Kelli, and some people, in Moscow. I didn’t know the song all the way. I kind of knew it. They said, “Do you know Ace Of Spades?”, and I’d go, “Of course. Fuck, that’s easy.”. No, it has a lot of changes in it that I didn’t know. (Laughs) And I made sure I learned them after. Phil Campbell and I have been always great friends, because he came to L.A. when they were doing albums. We became great friends, and then, “I know everybody in L.A., so if you wanna get any kind of drugs, I know who to get them from. I’m a native. I know everybody.”. So Phil, you know, me, at the time being a methhead, Motörhead. Oh yeah, I used to get him the best fucking shit you can possibly get. I mean, Phil and I have been great friends. He came down and we played Highway To Hell at a place in Wales.
Do you wish that you could play more of your solo stuff live, and people weren’t so nostalgic?
Well, when I first came over, in 2014, I moved to Finland. At first, before I left America, I had this idea, this band called CHP, Chris Holmes Project. The CHP is also ChiPs; Ponch and Jon from Highway Patrol, and I had a guitar with a Highway Patrol sticker on it. I did the album with Philthy, and I only sing on half of it. The second I did it too. I didn’t do a full vocal one. I did four instrumentals on the second one. I got over to Finland, and we played W.A.S.P. songs and Baton Rogue Morgue songs. We didn’t play any of my songs. I don’t know why. The band, Baton Rogue Morgue, all they wanted to do was drink and be rock stars. They didn’t want to do the job; what it takes. But I dreamed about doing Mean Man, and not have to do W.A.S.P. songs. Yeah, that’s what I wanted. That’s what I wanna do, but I can’t, because the people there, they come to see W.A.S.P. songs too, no matter what. I figured that out. If I didn’t play Wild Child and Animal, they’d probably leave a little mad, or disappointed, ‘cause they expect to hear that. I wrote the songs. I don’t mind playing them. I just didn’t get the publishing for them.
To what extent were you a part of the songwriting process there in the early days of W.A.S.P.?
I never got credit for any of it. Nothing. I don’t get any publishing. Since I have dyslexia, I couldn’t read the contract. Behind my back, when I wasn’t there, they signed contracts with my publishing company that I was a session player. And the names on the contracts was Steven Edward Duren, and Andy Taylor of the management Smallwood Taylor, and he’s the-sit-behind-the-desk-guy with the numbers. You know, Rod Smallwood is not. They knew what they were doing, you know. And I didn’t care. I trusted Blackie, you know. ‘Cause without me, he wouldn’t be where he’s at, guaranteed. Oh yeah, ‘cause nobody knows the whole story, in the beginning, how it started. Why didn’t W.A.S.P. work before I was in the band? They threw Randy Piper out to get me in. I was the only one that was a native in L.A., so who do you think all the roadies were? My friends. Where do you think all the shit that we had on stage came from? That shit you just don’t go and buy at the store. You got to make it somewhere. My friend’s dad’s shop… We made it all there, you know. So if I wasn’t in the thing, where is Blackie gonna get that? And plus all the ideas weren’t just Blackie’s. No, they were the roadies’ too. The made the concussion bombs that we had. They made the sign, that blew out. That wasn’t Blackie’s idea. No, everything was made at my friend’s shop, you know. So, he’d just write me my little publishing, you know. Big deal. And then when I found that out in 2014, it really yanked me wrong, ‘cause I thought he was a cool friend, when he just stabbed me in the back. I was supposed to get half publishing on Kill Fuck Die, I didn’t. And during The Headless Children, Frankie Banali wouldn’t tour unless he was getting 1850 a week, and I was only getting 500. And I asked Blackie, “That doesn’t seem fair to me.”, and, “Well, you’re gonna make more off publishing.”. That’s what he told me, when he knew he was ripping me off. So what kind of people are they? I trusted the wrong people. I should have known about it; how it worked. But it’s all right. I’m 66 years old right now, and I can still play. See, the reason why I think they did that to my publishing is if I was married and I died, then my wife could get all the… whatever. They didn’t think I’d make it past 40, or 50.
And here you are, 66.
Oh, yeah. I didn’t plan to. I didn’t give a fuck, you know. I didn’t care. Then I would have taken better care of myself.
On a more positive note. In your opinion, can you name the best thing you ever played with W.A.S.P.? Whether it’s a solo, a verse, an intro, you know.
It’d be on The Headless Children. (Pause) It would be the solo to The Heretic.
Which I think is the greatest song W.A.S.P. never plays live.
Well, we played it live in ’89. But no, no, no, Thunderhead. Thunderhead is the coolest solo I ever played. And we played that live too. (Hums the words: Hey, hey, hey – Will you die for me?) Yeah, yeah, I had this guitar solo. But I played all the guitars on that album, and what was cool was the engineer and I were the ones that did it all. Blackie wasn’t even there. He’d just come in and listen the next day, and said yes or no, you know. He gave us the reins to do what we want, and he’d just come and go yes or no. That’s why I like that record, you know. And plus: On most of the W.A.S.P. albums the rhythms were way in the background. They’re not in your face. You know, like Priest. So, I’m not happy about that. But there’s a lot of people that like the music. He does have a good voice, you know. When I play the songs, people like them.
The Headless Children seems so modern in comparison to the debut album, which was so raw. Two different albums.
Do you know why? Because of the drummer, Frankie Banali. Because of him. Because of the way he plays, man. The guitar player of this band that Frankie played in, called Scarab, in ’76 / ’77, was named Pete Castle. He’s dead now; Frankie is dead. And Rudy Sarzo played bass; I knew that. It could have been Gregg Giuffria on keyboards. I’m not sure. They had a keyboard player. I’m not sure it was him. And the guy, Pete, lived in my town, and I really admired the way he played. He taught me a lot of shit on guitar. So I was his roadie. You know, when they played the Starwood, and stuff like that. Where Van Halen played; same place. So I’ve known Frankie a long time, and Frankie came in and played The Headless Children. He’s probably, you know, one of the top, maybe, eight rock drummers there has ever been of the world. And the way he plays. It’s fucking heavy stuff. He’s a John Bonham freak, you know. He’s good. He’s what made that album, yeah, yeah. Because of the way he plays, you know. And when we wrote the stuff, we wrote it in Blackie’s garage. Johnny Rod there, and Blackie kind of on the guitar, and we just went through, you know, the songs. We had a drum machine for the timing, and went through, so we didn’t get to rehearsal. We knew all the stuff. We brought in Frankie. He was still in Quiet Riot, you know. Frankie always treated me like a roadie. So I didn’t like that. I got in a few fights with him on the road. Not physical, but a few, “Fuck you! Fuck you!”. His girlfriend and Lita (Ford), when I was married to her, they were friends. His girlfriend and Lita were friends, and something happened with them at home. I don’t know what. And Frankie comes in to a soundcheck and he was, “Tell Lita to go fuck herself.”. I was like, “Hey, wait. Don’t let this thing with our wives ruin our friendship.”, and, “Tell her to fuck off.”, I said, “No, you fuck off.”, and, “I had a number 1 album.”. He’d always tell me that. You know, “If that’s what your world is about, then…”, you know. But, you know, at that time in my life, I was more interested in getting drunk and doing drugs. I started taking LSD at 12, in seventh grade. I mean, I just looked at a seventh grader now, and, “Woah, I did that shit then?”. But I had older brothers. My next neighbor, across the street, was the same age as me. Same church, we grew up together. His dad was a scientist, at NASA, JPL. If we had a question about electronics, or whatever, he’d always take the time to show us whatever it was. I was going to school, and Gary gave me tinfoil, “What’s that?”. It was LSD, you know. Seventh grade. And I wasn’t gonna take it, but he talked me into it by the time we got to school. (Laughs) And I didn’t know what to feel. My first class was math. I don’t know what his was. And I was called up to do the equations on the board, and my name, you know, “Holmes”. The teacher wanted me up. You know, there were two kids on the chalkboard. And I took the chalk, and when I put it on the chalkboard, the fucking numbers stood off the wall, and I was like, “Now this is fucking cool, man.”. You know, that was an opening in my life. At that point I knew I was gonna be a drug addict. In Boy Scouts, I went down the Colorado River, The Grand Canyon, in the rapids. A seven-day trip, and I got to do some bitching things like that. Because of the Mormon church. You know, growing up. The thing was there was no, “Say no to drugs.”, and if you didn’t do drugs, you were an outcast.
Chris has to run down to the stage quickly before the doors are opening, so we take a break for a couple of minutes until he returns, and he continues on a different subject.
When I got cancer, a lot of people would give me messages, you know. And there was one message, that you could tell that the guy had the camera really close to the hand, and then it goes back, and you see his hand like this (moving back), and then it goes like this, and it’s Rob Halford, like, “Chris! It’s your metal god, Rob.”. Way cool. I was like, “Cool, man.”. The guitar player, Andy (Sneap) that plays for Tipton, he’s a Chris Holmes nut. A fan, you know. He’s, like, ten years younger than me. He said that when I, in ’84, played Manchester, I leaned over and gave him a pick. You know, he was, like, 14 or 15. I was playing, leaned over and gave him a pick. I knew he was right, ‘cause he goes, “That was a metal pick.”, and on the first tour I used metal picks. Anyway, The Headless Children, it was like that because of Banali. I wanted to use a guitar sound like that on the first albums, you know. But when you work with Blackie, he wants his voice to be the loudest thing on the album. I mean, look, before the first album with W.A.S.P., in ’83, what album came out? Born Again, and, “You think I’m gonna like W.A.S.P.?”. That album sucked. (Sings the words: I wanna be somebody, be somebody…) And then you got Disturbing The Priest, with Gillan singing. C’mon, dude. You think W.A.S.P. was heavy? Oh, fucking weak. Like fucking pop-rock, you know. (Laughs) It is. I’m serious. It’s not heavy. That album ain’t heavy metal. Check this out: Next time you listen to the first album of W.A.S.P., listen to the beats. They’re not heavy metal rock beats; they’re all shuffle. You know, that’s not heavy rock. It’s fucking shit. Blackie was, “Isn’t that cool? I mixed together the shuffle beat to make it heavy.”, and, “No, it’s not cool. You know, you ain’t a genius, dude.”.
But anyway, that album has good melodies.
What? The W.A.S.P. ones? Listen. If he didn’t have me playing the guitar parts in the rehearsal rooms, he wouldn’t have written those songs. Randy Piper didn’t write those, you know. If you ask Chris Laney if Randy wrote anything on their albums, he’d tell you no. Wild Child, you know. (Hums the intro riff.) I wanted to go back into that riff after the solo, but Blackie didn’t want it, you know. Have you seen the video? Well, they cut out my guitar solo. That fucking pissed me off, man. You know, and they put him on the cover. Do you think that it was Randy Piper and my idea for The Last Command to have him on the cover? Are you fucking serious? You know, at that point, it wasn’t a band anymore, and I didn’t give a fuck about it. I’d go jam with my buddies instead. You know, “Fuck it! I’ll just do the W.A.S.P. thing, and…”. I was happy to make money in playing music, you know. I wish I had known more about the publishing. You know what? If I would have done my publishing on the first album, there wouldn’t have been a second album with me on it. It wouldn’t have been. They wouldn’t have tolerated that. I would have gotten in a fight with them, and I would have just walked out and said, “Fuck you!”. But I didn’t understand how it worked.
Do you remember how much of the guitar parts you played on the first two records? Did you even play Randy’s parts?
On every album up to Kill Fuck Die, I played all the rhythms, all of them, every bit of rhythm. The reason why is I can go back in and track what I do, and you can’t tell the difference, you know. Randy, he’s not a heavy metal guitar player, no. But what Randy did, Randy did good. He did good, you know. The way he played. But I’m a Tony Iommi nut, even though I grew up with Van Halen. I’ve known Ed before he even played a nightclub, you know. I admired what he played, and I fucking loved his sound and everything. I couldn’t play like the guy, so I never tried to. But I love Tony Iommi. If you’d remixed the albums… Yeah, you could mix it up with the guitars up, and it would sound way different. I don’t know if people would like it as much, you know. And, you know, School Daze was one of the first ones, and School Daze is exactly like School’s Out with Alice Cooper. It’s stolen right from there.
One of the songs on the first album I like more today than I did in the past is Tormentor.
We’ll play Tormentor tonight. I’ll play Tormentor, and The Torture Never Stops. If you go back and listen to the Lyceum, and I just noticed this the other day, we’re at rehearsal… Today is Sunday, right? Thursday night, we were at rehearsal, ‘cause I only rehearse twice, and we’re fucking up some of the Tormentor stuff. I go, “Hey, put up the Lyceum.”, and our drummer, who has played with me for a while, holds the phone up to the mic, you know. And I listen to it, coming in after the solo, and the other voice was Blackie’s voice. That’s supposed to be (Steve) Riley’s. He went back in and sang the backgrounds. (Hums the Tormentor chorus.) So, he was cheating back then. I just noticed that. I mean, I think I’ve seen the video once, but I didn’t really pay attention, but now I heard Blackie’s voice. That song, in the middle, was the meat song, where he chopped the meat up, and opened this cage with the naked chick. Randy and I were switching off playing lead guitar, while the roadies behind the back were going like the drums on the bass. That’s what we did. Blackie would go back and give the roadie the bass, and he just kicked back by my cabinet and just strumming with the drums, you know. And Blackie could go and do the Blackie Lawless whatever the fuck, you know. The next voice on the album was Tony (Richards). It sounds like Klaus Meine. But Riley would do that live. But I just listened to it and noticed it wasn’t Riley; it was Blackie, so. You know, he wanted me to go back in and play my guitars. I said, “Fuck you. I’m not doing that.”. When the video camera is on my fingers, you know, so, “I’m not doing it.”.
You don’t seem like the Mean Man. Where did that come from?
During the songwriting ideas when we were putting Headless Children together, I wanted to have a song called Born To Raise Hell, about me. And I had an idea for the song. You know, it’d be written about me. And Blackie came up with the lyrics, “I’m a mean motherfucking man.”. That’s how it came out. You know, that’s his outlook on me, I guess. Mean Man, yeah. I don’t mind it. I like it; it’s fine. It’s just if I use the name Mean Man, everybody that knows W.A.S.P. knows who it is. That’s why I use it, you know.
Is it difficult to live up to some kind of reputation from 40 years ago when you were young?
What’s difficult to live off is the Decline (The Decline of Western Civilization Part II: The Metal Years). Okay, that. The pool scene. After doing that, you know. A lot of people think it’s sad. You know, it’s the way it was edited in the movie. It’s not that sad. It’s just somebody was drunk, and thrown into a pool doing an interview. That’s all it was, you know. That’s the only problem I got to live down. You know, I will say this: The energy that came off the stage in W.A.S.P. is from Chris Holmes. Nobody else. The energy came out of the way I used to do music, you know, on stage. Because I’m a Black Sabbath freak, you know. It’s just the way it is. I know that for a fact, ‘cause I went and saw W.A.S.P. in 2003, once they got another guy. You know, I didn’t know they got him. Blackie and I got in a fight. I went and saw them. I know the energy came from me, because I went to a show, and my friend was opening for W.A.S.P. at The Key Club, when they got this guy called Darrell Roberts. Now, Darrell is a great player, man. He’s good. His personality is way different to mine. But I went and saw them play, and they used the same sampling disc that we used on the previous tour. I know, I played the songs. It was the same songs. The same melody in the beginning, and then when they got to Wild Child, it was no energy. There was no energy in the room. It was dead. I was dressed in a way that the only thing you could see was my eyes. Black clothes, black everything, and you couldn’t tell it was me. It was Halloween. So I went. I was just kind of curious, just to see, you know. When I watched them play, right then I went, “Wow. I was the energy of this band.”. Everything is the same timing, but it just didn’t have any energy.
Why is there so much sampling and stuff?
Why does W.A.S.P. do it? ‘Cause of Blackie. ‘Cause what he sings on the record. ‘Cause he has to have the harmonies. If he doesn’t, his voice is not so good. He has to have that harmony thing on his voice. He can’t do what Sammy Hagar does. Believe me, W.A.S.P. was sampling during The Headless Children, the choruses. And I personally hated it. I hated it, ‘cause it’s not real, man. It’s not real. It’s like ripping people off.
By Tobbe – Published September 3rd, 2024